Commissioner Ott asks CCID to visit Maglev; Powder Springs-based company preparing proposal for KSU-to-Atlanta test track
by Jon Gillooly
jgillooly@mdjonline.com
December 16, 2011 12:36 AM | 5334 views | 51 51 comments | 19 19 recommendations | email to a friend | print
An American-Maglev Technology, Inc. prototype train sits in Powder Springs. On Thursday, Cobb Commissioner Bob Ott invited the Cumberland Community Improvement District’s board chaired by Tad Leithead to schedule a field trip to Powder Springs to visit the test track built by American Maglev Technology, Inc.<br>Staff/file
An American-Maglev Technology, Inc. prototype train sits in Powder Springs. On Thursday, Cobb Commissioner Bob Ott invited the Cumberland Community Improvement District’s board chaired by Tad Leithead to schedule a field trip to Powder Springs to visit the test track built by American Maglev Technology, Inc.
Staff/file
slideshow
CUMBERLAND — On Thursday, Cobb Commissioner Bob Ott invited the Cumberland Community Improvement District’s board chaired by Tad Leithead to schedule a field trip to Powder Springs to visit the test track built by American Maglev Technology, Inc.

Maglev, short for “magnetic levitation,” is a transportation system that uses magnets to propel a shuttle down a track.

Ott said American Maglev Technology is preparing to submit a proposal to the Cobb Board of Commissioners that may entail building a 22-mile track along Interstate 75 from Kennesaw State University to Perimeter Mall that can carry 110 passengers per shuttle at a speed of 60 to 65 mph for an individual ticket price of $4.

Since the company is in the process of identifying station locations, Ott encouraged the CID board members to visit and offer suggestions.

The line would be built with private funds but require public right-of-way to install the track.

The proposal may ask the various political subdivisions that the track passes through to guarantee a daily ridership of 35,000 to make it work, Ott said.

That means, for example, if only 20,000 passengers showed up, the various governments would make up the shortfall. But Ott believes this is achievable by channeling Cobb County Transit routes to the line.

Malaika Rivers, the CID’s executive director, seemed troubled during Ott’s comments, asking where else the company operates such a system.

They don’t, Ott said.

Cobb’s transportation director, Faye DiMassimo, further rained on Ott’s presentation by noting that Maglev is ineligible for federal funding because it’s considered an experimental technology.

Ott reiterated that federal funding was unnecessary as the company would build the line itself.

“Is it the mode that you appear to like or think is worth exploring, or is it (the company’s) business model?” Rivers asked.

Both, Ott said. If the Transportation Investment Act fails next July, there’s no back up plan to solve metro Atlanta’s traffic congestion. Moreover, for the $7 billion the proposed tax is expected to collect, Maglev could build 350 miles of track, he said.

“So why am I considering looking at it?” Ott asked. “Because based on (the company’s) numbers and everything I’ve seen so far, we would be foolish not to consider at least looking at it for that reason, and No. 2, what (they’re) proposing is private dollars.”

Leithead, who also chairs the Atlanta Regional Commission, said the only commercially operational maglev line he was familiar with was located in China.

Rivers, meantime, accused Ott of contradicting himself.

“If you could just help clarify for me, I’ve heard you indicate over the past year through what you’ve said, and what various articles have written is that you’ve been very clear to say that with the (county’s) ‘alternatives analysis’ and our desire to have light rail — we’ve made no bones about that and the other modes that are out there, BRT or whatever happens — you’ve been pretty clear in your message that nobody should rest their eggs in any one basket before the process takes place and the alternatives analysis indicates what the transportation mode should be light rail, BRT, commuter rail or otherwise and what that corridor should be,” Rivers said. “The way you presented the information with this opportunity with this company, you seemed pretty specific on the alignment, and you seemed very specific on the modes, so I’m just trying to reconcile how you presented that information with what you’ve been saying over the past year.”

Simple, Ott said. The county’s alternatives analysis currently being prepared will only consider three or four transportation options. So Ott is reviewing others so as not to duplicate what the study is already doing.

“One of issues I’ve had with the Transportation Investment Act is the fact that it’s public money,” Ott said. “It doesn’t really address completely the (operational and maintenance) cost, and it doesn’t really go where everybody has identified the congestion is.”

So what’s the harm in reviewing other options, he asked.

“I wouldn’t classify it as discarding what I said,” Ott said. “If you look at the definition of brainstorming, you don’t discard anything that comes forward. We’ve had a lot of studies that have come forward, but none of them have brought anything to fruition to deal with our congestion problem.”

Rivers did not offer to contact American Maglev Technology, but she informed Ott that they could contact her.

“You can certainly give them my contact information,” she said.

Rivers then turned to face her board.

“The county needs to hear from the CID where it stands when it comes to transit,” Rivers said. “I just made the statement that we have been looking at and studying light rail specifically for the past 10 years, and we helped launch the county’s process, which has gotten it to this point through our original document, which was a feasibility study, which then has now grown into an alternatives analysis. You frequently hear me talk about it in our meetings, but I would like the board to make a statement in terms of where the board stands when it comes to transit and its impact on this community.”

Leithead said the board would support whatever the AA recommended.

“I think if we’ve learned anything, if the CID has a position today, it’s that at this moment we intend to be bound by the results of the AA,” Leithead said. “We hung our hat on the $1.3 million process. If it comes out and says light rail, so be it. If it comes out and says BRT, so be it. If it comes out and says no build, so be it.”

After the meeting, Leithead denied that the proposed $695 million Acworth-Midtown bus line on the TSPLOST project list is a ‘backdoor’ approach to get MARTA into Cobb as former county Chairman Bill Byrne has alleged.

“There’s nothing backdoor about it,” Leithead said. “It’s been in all the newspapers. It’s an intent to provide a transit alternative to those Cobb County residents who would prefer to use transit.”

And besides, Leithead said, MARTA is a useful system.

“It’s a good system,” Leithead said. “It’s the ninth largest system in the world. It provides 500,000 people a day with an alternative to the single occupancy vehicle, so yeah, I like MARTA.”

And if MARTA turns out to be the operator of whatever transit line is built in Cobb, Leithead said that would be fine with him.

“What we’re advocating is a region-wide transit system that provides a much higher percentage of our population with a transit option,” Leithead said. “Under transit governance a very key issue in the upcoming Legislature is going to be legislation with regard to some sort of regional transit governance system. I think there’s a very high likelihood that under transit governance legislation we might see a new name. In terms of heavy rail, MARTA is pretty much the only game in town. But it would be nonsense to try to develop a regional transit system that doesn’t connect with the existing transit system. We’ve got to connect to the existing spine.”

Leithead also said he is optimistic the 10-year transportation tax will be approved next year.

“I think there’s a lot of consternation, there’s a lot of discussion, but our polling shows that 58 percent of the voters right now who are knowledgeable about it, 58 percent of the people who are likely to vote say they’ll vote for it,” Leithead said. “I think as we go through the education process and people learn more about the project list and more about the impact that it will have on the region and on their quality of life that that educational process will nudge people in the direction of being in favor of it. So yes, I believe it will pass, but that doesn’t mean it’s a slam dunk.”
Comments
(51)
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thugger
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December 22, 2011
this from the people that couldn't meet payroll last year.
Ukiddin me?
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December 19, 2011
Has anyone researched the colossal failure of this plan in Virginia? Two of the three passenger stations for Old Dominion University 's controversial maglev train have sat unused for so long that they must be torn down due to safety concerns. Check it out folks! this is unproven, and poor Old Dominion and others lost a good deal of money on this. Don't drink the Kool-aid just yet!
Old News
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December 21, 2011
The Old Dominion issue is old news.

The technology now being proposed is a far cry from the ODU experimental effort.

It has been proven and tested over a number of years.

The real issue is the fact that the "technologies" (like MARTA) currently being utilized have been proven to be colossal, tax gobbling failures.

They have been proven time and again that they are not financially sustainable without huge injections of taxpayer subsidies.

Consider this.

If the maglev technology being proposed does not work as advertised it is on the private sector financiers and investors.

Their risk, not the taxpayers.

An important distinction to be sure!!
mehta i
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December 17, 2011
taxpayers will have to pay to guarantee a daily ridership of 35,000 to "make it work"??? sweet deal--the developer gets a guaranteed profit, the taxpayers get hosed!!!
Let's See
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December 17, 2011
The light rail proposal as it currently stands requires that the taxpayers pay all of the construction costs.

Around $2 Billion if it goes all the way to Kennesaw. This, of course, doesn't include any unforseen and almost guaranteed cost increases.

Taxpayers are also on the hook for 60% to 80% of the operating and maintenance costs FOREVER. Those costs are somewhere around $18 Million to $37 Million per year according to estimates by Cobb DOT.

The maglev proposal, as I understand it, has the private sector paying all of the construction costs and all of the operating and maintenance costs. Not one dime comes from the taxpayers!!!

The ridership gurantee is necessary so that the public sector has at least some skin in the game and will be less inclined to build a competing system that IS subsidized by the taxpayers.

Besides if you believe what the Cobb DOT rideship studies say the estimated ridership is 90,000 per day.

More than twice the 35,000 ridership guarantee being requested.

A reasonable request if you ask me. At least the taxpayer exposure is capped.

Publicly operated transit systems, as they are currently operated, are a virtual blackholes with no limited downside for the taxpayers.

Recons Required
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December 17, 2011
Terribly dumb comment, Mehta I. But...in the world of the Internet, everyone gets to talk. Some, unfortunately talk before they have any facts whatsoever.

Who do you suppose makes out on road construction, Mehta? The taxpayers shell out with every gallon of gas they buy...and through their property taxes...and their federal taxes, etc. But the developers, constructors, consultants, and bureaucrats ALL get a guaranteed return...while we stupidly sit in our cars going nowhere.

I guess you see roads as being "free". Too bad. You just don't get it.

FuzzyLogic
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December 17, 2011
Just a few observations:

Bob Ott is NOT an advocate of American Maglev. He is simply saying it should be considered along with other technologies.

Maglev is a proven tecchnology although it has not been used in the specific application (daily commuting) being proposed. Obviously all aspects of the proposed system will be vetted before it is considered as an acceptable alternative.

The existing technologies being used in Atlanta and elsewhere (light rail, heavy rail, bus rapid transit) are proven also. Proven to failures that are extremely costly to build and even more costly to operate and maintain.

If a system is being privately financed and operated the cost should be of no concern to the taxpaying public. That is the concern and resposibility of the involved lenders and investors.

If the private sector wants to take the risk and the technology is sound then why not at least give it a fair hearing?

The reluctance of the Cumberland CID and Cobb DOT to do that certainly sheds suspicion on their motives.

CID Ot of Touch
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December 17, 2011
Unbelievable that Leithead and Rivers are so close minded that they cannot even entertain the notion of looking at this privately funded alternative transportation!

Rivers you are so out of line by your comments and actions -" Rivers did not offer to contact American Maglev Technology, but she informed Ott that they could contact her.

“You can certainly give them my contact information,” she said."

Would you like that to be delivered to you on a silver platter with a gold printed invitation?

Fact of the matter is both Leithead and Rivers do not want a transportation system that would not need funding from the county; they would lose control of where the line would be placed and who will get our tax money.

Leithead supports MARTA because he is heavily invested in Atlanta. I have not a clue what Rivers problem is.... just a prima donna being paid a lot of money to be abrasive!

Get Real
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December 20, 2011
Hey CID Out of Touch - before you question individuals and their intentions why dont you do some research on MagLev technology, how unproven it is and what a failure it has been. Why dont we ask Rivers and Leithead to spend another year researching Lollipop powered flying buses as a transportation alternative too. That would be about as realistic for Cobb.
MAY-RETTA SURVIVOR
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December 17, 2011
Without fail, wherever these rapid transit have been routed, they have brought nothing but drugs, illegals, crime and low-income rentals and those who inhabit them. Sad to see this is happening in our area.
Dinosaur Alert
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December 17, 2011
OH really. That doesn't appear to be so at Perimeter Mall (Dunwoody Station) or North Springs.

I suppose you would rather spend 2-3 hours every day stuck in your cushy SUV on I-75, rolling at what....10mph? I'll also bet your solution is to "add more lanes", right?

Nice thinking May-Retta. Way to do the complete analysis.

Any time you want to open your mind to perhaps something beyond 1950, just let us know. We'll be happy to welcome you to actual, contemporary life.
anonymous
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December 16, 2011
Those who think this is a slam dunk no-brainer should go to their favorite search engine and type in "tony morris old dominion maglev". Read the articles and make up your own mind.
Credibility Check
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December 17, 2011
Looks like OTG at it again. Give it up. Morris tells the whole story in full on his own website. That was first generation, full scale technology. He's now on 3rd generation design in vehicle and guideway.

It's called learning. It's called innovation.

How's the OTG full scale prototype doing? What? You don't have one? Gosh. That' means you're not even on first gen. technology. But nevertheless, you seem to be more interested in trashing a competitor -- on entirely specious grounds. Pretty cheezy.
anonymous
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December 19, 2011
Actually, all I know about OTG is what I've read on the internet and it seems you are correct, they do not have a working prototype. And this has nothing to do with the story written in the MDJ. My point is, so many have commented here to the effect that this is a ready to go, privately funded commercial system that makes all the sense in the world. In my opinion, it is still experimental technology that may one day be viable, but to date has had a lot of misfortune.
can't wait
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December 16, 2011
Just can't wait til the election. As soon as Byrne is elected he will boot Ms DiMassimo out on the street as well as her $90000 deputy. They were both "buy offs" to croy engineering so they could get millions in unneeded contracts. Do the research. She was only brought in to try to force light rail down our throats and her deputy was hired because she wasn't qualified as an engineer. What a DOT director that is not a traffic engineer....what a disgrace.
mk - cobb corruption
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December 17, 2011
Yes, Croy Engineering is right in there, w/ the big money deception that eating Cobb County alive.

Of course, if you ask Croy questions concerning SPLOST & waste,.. they will proudly tell you, "We're just doing what we're told".

There was a list that came out in several letters to the editor, when the SPLOST passed , of folks who were all 'connected' by big political donations & contracts -- but seems it all got swept under the rug & there was no investigation.

It worries me that the Cobb citizens aren't up in arms over all these wasteful 'pocket lining' studies,... including the Alternative Analysis study awarded to Croy Engineering for 1.8 MILLION.

I would love to know how much 'public' money Croy has recieved, as well as other big engineers & contractors.

These companies bilk the SPLOST-- & we clearly end up w/ ZERO results!!!

It's all being STUDIED, it's all being

PLANNED, it's all on PAPER, it's all in POCKETS!!
Oh Yeah
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December 17, 2011
So you think Byrne will dump DiMassimo and get rid of Croy Engineering, fat chance, Croy was Byrne's golden boy at CDOT and answered to his beck and call.

And remember what so proudly Byrne did for Cobb with he and Wysong's Family Values fiasco, and then there was Bedminister and a host of other under the rug deals that the general public do not know about still being covered up by Hankerson.

THE TRUTH
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December 16, 2011
Glad to see Commissioner Ott is now in favor of Transit. Looks like that is a step in the right direction.

One question, if MAG LEV is the best thing since sliced bread, why is there not a functional MAG LEV project currently running using the technology that is being proposed by Commissioner Ott?
Jetgraphics
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December 16, 2011
Methinks someone is “cooking the books” when it comes to the data.

We can find a reference to a 30 HP engine hauling a 70 Ton train at 20 mph on level track.

How heavy is the maglev car levitated with 50 HP ? And how fast?

And the cost for steel rail is not $200 – 700 M per mile for 79 MPH signaled track, but more in the range of $5 – 7M per mile.

“If you’re looking to build a mile of interstate highway, you’re looking anywhere from $30 million to $50 million a mile. So, building a rail operation at $5 million a mile is a pretty good deal,” he said.

It may be far more cost effective to install a commuter track along existing freight rail rights of way, than to spend ten times as much for "Gee Whiz" MagLev.

To Jetgraphics
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December 17, 2011
A mag-lev vehicle of the type shown here, Jetgraphics, weights 50k pounds empty and 100k pounds loaded to capacity. It has 2 "motors" for propulsion totally 2300HP. Top speed exceeds 130mph on a suitable guideway, but generally not in excess of 70mph in transit applications. Fully loaded, a mag-lev vehicle of this type can climb a 10% grade without losing a single MPH. It is also more than twice as energy efficient as a steel-wheeled train. This is real world data....not a model.

As for using existing freight lines, please don't make me go through this analysis again. Every aspect of that idea is wrong, from being too expensive, to legally impractical. Just drop the idea, please.
URKiddingRight?
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December 16, 2011
10 years and several millions of dollars in studies just to get to the point of getting yet another $1.3 million dollar study (Alternatives Analysis) started?

Another year or so to finish it?

Hope and pray that the TIA passes?

Non existent federal funding to make the Cobb County portion of the project happen?

Huge perpetual taxpayer subsidies required to keep it up and running?

What are these people smoking?

Drug tests all around please!!

No wonder the Cumberland area is becoming the next NorthLake Mall area!!

There obviously needs to be a leadership change at the Cumberland CID.
riverfoxx
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December 16, 2011
I don't understand the fear of at least looking into the Maglev option. From the sounds of it, Cobb County could have a rail option that would be superior to any city for a minimal cost. I have traveled rail in cities like Washington DC and London and it is possible to do rail correctly and exceed the rider minimums to pay for the line. Traveling outside our city helps one see that it has not been done correctly here, but it is possible to do it right!

I also use MARTA regularly. It takes people to locations they want/need to go and is a much quicker option than car. I think the biggest issues with MARTA are the safety factor and walking. People seem to be concerned that it is unsafe or they will have to walk. I have never felt unsafe on MARTA even at night and no solution, no matter how well it is executed will eliminate some walking from the station to the final destination. Cities in the south are the only ones I have spent time in that are afraid to walk somewhere, but as I can see from this experience with TSPLOST our elected officials continue to perpetuate a "automobile driven" society where 300,000 cars a day spend hours away from their family and things they enjoy doing to sit in traffic.

top cat
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December 16, 2011
Congratulations, Commissioner Ott. Checkmate.

Congratulations, Jon Gillooly. Checkmate.

Thank you, Malaika Rivers and thank you, Tod Leithead. The game is up.
FantasyWorld
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December 16, 2011
It looks like the Cumberland CID is a big part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

Why in the world would they oppose a potential solution that is private sector based?

Regardless of Ms. Dimassimo's delusional belief that the federal goverment is going to come riding to the rescue with bags of federal tax dollars and empty them into her arms, that is simply not going to happen.

No less than our U.S. Senators and Congessional Representatives have said not to expect any kind of significant federal help.

Even if it did and federal dollars magically appeared, how do we pay for the ongoing operational and maintenance expenses associated with a publicly owned and operated system?

Look at MARTA for your answer!!!

It is unsustainable without huge ongoing taxpayer subsidies!!

Why do we keep repeating the same mistakes?

Come on people, take a hint from Commissioner Ott and start thinking outside the box!!

thrasher1964
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December 16, 2011
Why to Permieter mall? Silly question. Actually I work over here and live in East Cobb. There are major, major corporations over here that are located here. This area probalby employees more than the Galleria area. That is the perfect reason to have light rail to this area. 285 traffic is "wall to wall" traffic five days a week, daily. I have been driving on 75 and 285 for almost 21 years. I am 47 yrs old now....and I can remember back in the mid 80's, they were talking "light rail". Ever since, Cobb County has paid probably "millions" in traffic studies and NOTHING to show for it. I would definately support the option from Powder Springs(Maglev.) Maybe it would also provide local jobs for people around here. I hope it works out.Oh, and by the way, I am still voting NO on the 1% tax on traffic next year...more wasted studies/again!!!
our tax dollars
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December 16, 2011
CHEAPER TO BUILD

CHEAPER TO OPERATE AND MAINTAIN

SUPERIOR SERVICE AT LOWER COST

MORE RESPONSIBLE USE OF OUR TAX DOLLARS
Justin Cayce
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December 16, 2011
Dear Fellow Citizens of Cobb County,

Before we consider creating rail lines that connect into Atlanta, can we go and experience the MARTA trains at peak travel times. Ride the entire MARTA train system.

Is that what we want to create in Cobb County?

As for Commissioner Ott. He is a professional airline pilot. They are not given to much logical thought. They read their checklist and fly their planes. They have no creativity, whatsoever.

To the people who elected Commissioner Ott, I am .... R_O_T_F_L_M_A_O ! ! !
TIC
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December 16, 2011
To the contrary, commissioner Ott seems to be one of the few people being creative about solutions to our congestion problems.

It is our Commission Chairman, our DOT Director and the Cumberland CID that are locked into a MARTA type solution.

Talk about having no creativity!!!!!
Piney Woods Pete II
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December 16, 2011
"Malaika Rivers seemed troubled during Ott's comments". Now that's an understatement.

CIDs would have us believe they are self taxing districts to fund improvements within their districts. Nothing could be further from the truth. The objective of CIDs is to fund their projects with federal grants.

Commissioner Ott, what were you thinking? You had the nerve to propose a transportation option without massive federal money! You're lucky to get out of there without being tarred and feathered.
OTG HighRoad
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December 16, 2011
@NoWhiningPlease - Nope. Just reading, not commenting other than this post.

Is it not possible for others' to express their opinion without trying to pin it on us?

Mr Morris and his backers need not be so defensive if their technology can stand up to the scrutiny. Good luck!
CobbCountyRedneck
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December 16, 2011
Exactly!!

Any system needs to be fully vetted before moving forward!!

The irony is that if the same scrutiny standards were applied to the systems being proposed by the County and the Cumberland CID (light rail) there is no way they would pass the "smell" test.

Extremely expensive construction costs.

Extraordinary operating and maintenance costs.

Taxpayer funded.

Financially unsustainable.

Yet our "leaders" keep pushing us in that dangerous dead end direction.

Unbelieveable!!!

mk- cobb needs JOBS!
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December 16, 2011
... I like rail , ... in some places,(Denver/Decatur)... that was begun long ago, when still affordable.

But many do understand we are BROKE. The money they hope & need, won't be there.

So, tho' it's not the right time to START a rail line in Cobb,... it's NOT too late to try to turn Cobb into a viable , quality destination for business. Gwinnett does not have rail,... but they have been doing ALL the right things attracting businesses & building quality cities.

Revitalizing & redeveloping Cobb Parkway, into a 'place' we can be proud of, is what needs to be on the fast track.

So Cobb's residents don't have to LEAVE Cobb County to find work,.. THAT is why I am saying we need highrises, mixed-use & businesses, built along the Cobb Parkway Corridor!

Then , later, once a viable area is ESTABLISHED, & people LIVING where they are WORKING,.. the need for transit options will be determined.

Cobb County deserves a productive business & economic climate-- so we DON'T have to go so far to work!
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