A Slaughter in Connecticut
by Kevin_Foley
 Politics Progressive
December 18, 2012 08:34 AM | 1611 views | 33 33 comments | 14 14 recommendations | email to a friend | print | permalink
So we can add 26 more to America's gun violence body count, this time, 20 first graders and seven adults mowed down by another reclusive lunatic. And its becoming so frequent, we're all becoming inured to it.

 

I wonder how many Americans were annoyed Sunday night when NBC cut away from the 49ers-Patriots game to broadcast President Obama's remarks at the memorial service in Newtown, Connecticut?

 

Last Friday, it was the same footage we always see: grim faced first responders and panicked parents rushing to the scene; surviving school kids shivering in terror, and another police chief trying to make sense of the insane.

 

Those first graders thought they were safe in their Sandy Hook classroom, no doubt giddy over the approaching Christmas holiday; baking cookies with mom, wrapping presents with dad, sledding with their friends. Then the shooting started, their little bodies cut to pieces by high powered bullets shot from a semi automatic assault weapon with a 30-round magazine.

 

These are the images we need to see, not the sterile, "here-we-go-again" footage we're accustomed to and, yes, indifferent to.

 

Let's see those victims so we all know what bullets really do. Let's be as shocked and sickened as those first police officers on the scene were at the sight of those dead babies and the women who gave their lives trying to protect them.

 

What's that? You don't think it's appropriate? Guns don't kill people? What about your Second Amendment rights?

 

Columbine. Virginia Tech. Tucson, Aurora. Now Newtown. Innocents slaughtered with weapons that should have never been in the hands of their maniac killers. Do the rest of us care enough now to enact sensible gun control laws? Is our outrage, at long last, enough to finally tip the scales?

 

Or will we just change the channel again.
Comments
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Lib in Cobb
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January 04, 2013
@Cobb Guy: You can have your discussion using statistics if you wish. I have never liked statistics. Logic and reason tells me that no child should be dead by gunfire, because someone did not use enough caution in keeping these unnecessary weapons out of the hands of their very troubled son. Logic and reason tells me that if these unnecessary guns were extremely hard to get by the general public then 20 children and six adults would not be dead in CT, the latest of the mass murders where an semi auto assault rifle was the weapon of choice. Logic and reason tells me that Adam Lanza's mother made a terrible mistake by teaching her very troubled son, how to shoot. I will add Adam Lanza was not trusted by his own mother, yet she put a gun in his hands. Logic and reason tells me that if you wish to own a gun for self protection, you don't need a Glock or a Bush Master or a AR 15. Logic and reason tells me that there is something vitally missing in the male and or female makeup if they feel incomplete without an arsenal in their home. I would suggest therapy, lots of therapy.

Statistics are your way of telling the victims and the families of victims, that it's not as bad as it seems.
CobbCoGuy
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December 31, 2012
Lib

No.

This is a discussion about solving a problem with statistics, logic and reason, not minimizing the problem.

Let's imagine a conversation between you and me. I'll start.

CCG: Lib, do you wear a seat belt?

Lib: Of course.

CCG: Why?

Lib: Because seat belts save lives.

CCG: How do you know?

Now, it's your turn to select the correct response.

Lib: Because 1) I was involved in an accident and the seat belt prevented me from being thrown from the car, or 2) because of studies, based on statistical analyses, done by the government, the auto industry, think tanks, and the insurance industry.

CCG: But, Lib, what if you were wearing a seat belt, had an accident, the car burst into flames, and the seat belt had you trapped for the few precious seconds you had before you were engulfed in the flames?

Now, I'll answer for you, but feel free to correct me if my answer is incorrect.

Lib: Well, the chances of a seat belt saving a life far outweigh the chances it will cause your death.

CCG: How do you know that?
Lib in Cobb
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December 29, 2012
Cobb Guy: There is no difference in Newtown, CT or Tuscon,AZ or any other location where there has been a shooting. You are attempting to minimalize the problem by using statistics. There's lies, damned lies then there is statistics. I am certain that the statistics will bring comfort to the parents of dead children.
CobbCoGuy
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December 29, 2012
Lib in Cobb wrote:

"Your willingness to "normalize the numbers is a callous approach..."

This is a very emotional issue and everyone in the U.S. is weeping for the folks in Newtown.

No, it's not callous, but realistic.

EFFECTIVE policy to address any issue must be based on logic, reason, and, if available, accurate and meaningful statistics.

On the other hand, folks who simply want to push an agenda are free to throw around numbers willy-nilly and hope something sticks.

There is a difference.
Kevin Foley
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December 25, 2012
Mr. Middleton, 26 people killed with a baseball bat in 5 minutes? Absurd. You're drunk on NRA Kool Aid.

See my Friday column.

Lib in Cobb
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December 23, 2012
George: Your point is weak, immature, without merit and has been used too often, especially in situations like this when no cogent argument is available.

If baseball bats or fertilizer trucks or frying pans or toilet seats or foot stools were used in 70% of all homocides and in nearly all mass murders, then this moronic idea of yours would have value. Your statemnt has no value come back when you have anything worthwhile to say.



Lib in Cobb
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December 22, 2012
@Cobb Guy

Your willingness to "normalize the numbers is a callous approach to tens of thousands of deaths in this country where a gun was the weapon of choice.

I am certain that the parents of the 20 dead children in CT would be more than happy to "normalize" the numbers, in order to make any study look more acceptable.
George Middleton
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December 21, 2012
Mr. Foley, would you be calling for a ban on baseball bats if the 26 children and adults had been bludgeoned to death with one? Or a ban on cutlery, had they been stabbed? Or a ban on trucks and fertilizer, had they been blown up in

the manner of the Timothy McVeigh massacre?

You are placing the blame for this on the instrument and ignoring the perpetrator, without whom it would not have happened.

Further, a revolver kills just as dead as a so-called "assault weapon."

Rethink your position,Sir, The one you are pursuing is ludicrous.
Lib in Cobb
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December 21, 2012
Cobb Guy: Whether the numbers are per capita or just absolute numbers, it still equates to many dead and wounded people via gunfire.
CobbCoGuy
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December 20, 2012
@Lib

I hear what you're saying about the number of mass killings and firearm deaths, but you're citing absolute numbers. The U.S. has a large population. The numbers need to be normalized on a per capita basis.

Nevertheless, thank you for the adult conversation.
CobbCoGuy
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December 20, 2012
@Lib

I understand your desire to eliminate the 2nd amendment and create a gun-free society. I'm afraid the utopia you desire just won't happen, notwithstanding the success you correctly cite regarding Japan.

Dave Kopel has written much about this subject in relation to Japan. To be fair, Kopel is on the gun rights side; I've yet to find research for gun control as extensive.

A few excerpts from his writings are in order...

"...Japan may be a gun-banner's dream, it's a civil libertarian's nightmare. Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control."

"Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority."

"Having lived together for several thousand years without significant immigration, the Japanese have developed the world's most homogenous and unified society. America's ethnic diversity causes tensions and crime..."

"Partly because the Japanese are so unified and homogenous, they accept and internalize social controls. It is this attitude of obedience and impulse control that matters most in the low Japanese crime rate. Guns or not, the Japanese are simply the

world's most law-abiding people." [note that we witnessed this in Japan's response to the tsunami - patiently and politely waiting in lines to receive aid]

You get the idea. It's a cultural thing.
Lib in Cobb
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December 20, 2012
According to a Bloomberg News study, gun deaths will exceed car accident deaths by 2015. There will be 33,000 firearm deaths compared to 32,000 traffic deaths. So by 2015 the gun carrying advocates will no longer be able to make the stupid statement regarding cars kill more people so let's outlaw cars. Conveniently the gun lovers forget that cars were not invented to be a weapon.
Kevin Foley
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December 20, 2012
@ Middleton - Confirmation bias? No, considered opinion based on the evidence of 26 corpses that, this time last week, were lively, beautiful lives.

You, Armstrong, Cobb County Guy, and the rest of you reactionaries are providing the cover that will allow another mass shooting to happen. Stop telling me about your "gun rights." I'm sick of it.

When they wrote the Constitution, the framers were talking about single shot muskets and a "well regulated militia," not 30-round assault weapons. If they knew about such killing machines, THEY would have written the gun control laws.
Lib in Cobb
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December 20, 2012
@Cobb Guy: The fequency of mass shootings in the US is higher than any other country, making it a bigger problem for us than any other population.
Lib in Cobb
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December 20, 2012
@Middleton: At some point the carnage in CT will be used as an unintended tool for the anti gun or the pro gun agenda, it has to be. The very presence of the gun in the Newtown massacre or any other massacre where a gun was the weapon of choice will be used by all sides to discuss an agenda. No discussion can be had without mentioning this or any other mass killing, all made possible by the availability of a gun or guns.

Friendly Web Editor
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December 20, 2012
Laura Armstrong: Call me at 770.428.9411 ext 247.

I will be happy to discuss.
Lib in Cobb
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December 20, 2012
@Laura: You continue to mention Benghazi, the killings in Libya have nothing to do with the slaughter in CT or gun control in this country.

There is no genocide in England or Japan, both countries have very strict gun contol laws.

Try for a few minutes to stay on task, take an extra dose of ritalin.
George Middleton
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December 20, 2012
Mr. Foley, were I still teaching, I would be able to use this entire exchange, including your original letter, along with the comments by your attack dog, Lib in Cobb, as textbook examples of confirmation bias. Simply ignoring everything that does not support your veiws, is a dishonest tactic in a debate, or a real life situation.

All the examples put forth, of mass killings done without guns, are certainly relevant to any discussion about banning guns as a method of stopping mass killings.

Using such aa horrendous happening, as the Newtown massacre, to further a political agenda is beyond contempt.
Laura Armstrong
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December 20, 2012
Are my posting guidelines different than others for some reason? Rules, please, for me, as I don't want to keep wasting my time if my comments aren't going to be run. Thanks:)
CobbCoGuy
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December 19, 2012
Mr. Foley

I'm sure you know this; I don't understand why you appear to be ignoring it. This is a worldwide problem. It is not unique to the U.S. You DO remember the killings at the youth camp in Norway, right? Does Dunblane, Scotland, ring a bell?

Google "mass killings worldwide" and peruse the long lists of other killings in Finland, Germany, Australia, Azerbaijan, et al.

By the way, Republicans are NOT making excuses. Republicans are interested in EFFECTIVE measures, just as you are.
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