MARIETTA - Journal staff spent more than an hour on Tuesday with north Cobb school board candidate Bill Borden, a real estate broker, mortgage loan officer, motivational speaker and 2002 Alaska Iditarod racer.

On Tuesday, Borden will face off against Kathleen Angelucci in the Republican primary for the seat. The winner will likely take office in January.

Borden touts himself as a successful businessman, and he has created various businesses and holding companies over the years. He earned a juris doctorate from John Marshall Law School in 1993, but never passed the bar exam.

His background is unusual, and Journal staff have spent recent weeks trying to understand more about the man who has not only the endorsement but the full support of Mayors Mark Mathews of Kennesaw and Tommy Allegood of Acworth, who are Borden's campaign chairs.

On Tuesday morning, Borden visited with Journal publisher Otis Brumby Jr., news editor Kim Isaza and reporter Kathryn Dobies at the newspaper offices in Marietta. Excerpts of that interview follow.

Q. Your house in Kennesaw, how long have you lived there? Have you ever rented (out) that house?

A. 17 years. Never. We've got a limited amount of time because I know we've got the forum at the Kennesaw Business Association, so I would really hope the paper would concentrate on what the actual issues for school board are. And the topic of the school board. I'm sure you didn't ask my opponent how long she's lived there.



Q. As you know, the cars have been a subject of controversy. Are they still registered to Alaska?

A. They are still registered to Alaska. I would love to register one of them here, but we're still working on that.

Q. Have you gotten a letter from the tag office?

A. I have received a letter from the tag office.

Q. You were quoted in the paper as saying that you couldn't get the emissions done because you had to be in Georgia your birth month - you were born December 26. Is that still your understanding of Georgia law?

A. When I took my Georgia car to Alaska, and that tag expired in Alaska, I was told by Georgia that I would have to drive the car back to Georgia to get an emissions sticker, that there was no provision to get that emissions sticker out of state.

Q. They told you that in Alaska?

A. No, they told me that in Georgia.

Q. When, how long ago?

A. That was back in 2001 or 2002.

Q. So you've never tried to get an emissions stickers since then?

A. Again, this is irrelevant. I've gotten all the emissions stickers I was required to get. My cars are licensed legally. My cars are insured legally. Let's please move on.



Q. In your literature, you say you've been a very successful businessman and operated some successful businesses, and we need a successful businessman on the school board. ... Is it true that you operated Real Estate Central for 15 years without a business license?

A. It's true that I operate Real Estate Central as a licensed entity with Secretary of State's office. However it was a home-based business until recently, when it started making some money.

Q. It's in the county. But you're telling us that you don't have to have a business license to operated a real estate office in unincorporated Cobb?

A. No sir. It was a home-based business that I missed having a business license. I made the mistake of not having a business license. I remedied as soon as I realized it.

Q. You realized it when we asked about it?

A. Yes sir.

Q. How many closings has Real Estate Central had since the first of the year?

A. I do not know, that's my wife's company. And she's not running for office.

Q. Now your financial disclosure form says you own part of it.

A. No sir, it does not.

Q. Real Estate Central?

A. Real Estate Central, I do. I thought you said Real Estate Custom Finance. I would not know how many, I would have to look at records to see how many closings we had, we had one yesterday.

Q. Have you had a closing yourself?

A. I'd have to go back and look. I think I have had a couple this year.

Q. But you own all of Real Estate Central?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you own none of Checkpoint Mortgage, Inc.?

A. That's correct, I own none of Checkpoint Mortgage.

Q. You own part of Checkpoint in Alaska.

A. Checkpoint, Inc. Yes, in Alaska.

Q. Why are they different companies?

A. They do different things.

Q. On the website they're presented as one, but there's a Georgia and Alaska phone number.

A. No, ma'am they aren't. Checkpoint, Inc. is completely different than Checkpoint Mortgage.

Q. What does Checkpoint, Inc. then do?

A. Checkpoint Inc. is a real estate sales company in Alaska, and only does business in Alaska.

Q. Have they had any sales since the first of the year?

A. No.

Q. Do you own any real estate in Alaska now?

A. No, I do not personally own real estate in Alaska. My family owns companies that own real estate in Alaska. I'm sure that you understand how holding companies work.

Q. So if you own stock in the Southern Company you might say you own real estate in Alaska. But you're not involved with the management of any of these companies.

A. In Alaska, I have a second home in Alaska.

Q. Who owns it?

A. My wife's company owns that.

Q. Which is?

A. Real Estate Custom Finance. But again, I think this line of questioning is at an end, because we're wanting to know if I am a successful businessman able to run a billion dollar coporate and we need to move on. If any of your readers wish to talk more in depth about that, I will be happy to. My phone number is 770-874-5533, and your readers can call me.



Q. Is there any legal reason you cannot own part of Checkpoint Mortgage here in Georgia?

A. No there is not.

Q. If your wife gave you half of it you could accept ownership?

A. I wouldn't. It's her company, she's worked very hard for that.

Q. But on your website you do say with your help Checkpoint Mortgage became one of the top mortgage brokers...

A. When I returned from the Iditarod in 2002, by the end of that year the Atlanta Business Chronicle had Real Estate Custom Finance, which became Checkpoint Mortgage as a d/b/a, one of top 20 mortgage brokers in the state of Georgia.



Q. Let me ask you about your mortgage license. The bank regulators say your registered number has not been approved.

A. The bank regulators said that? Can you tell me who said that?

Q. I can't. I don't have the names here. But it doesn't match on the website.

A. There's a lot of people applying and it takes a lot of time to run through.

Q. Brenda's has been approved.

A. And Brenda has a lower number than I do.

Q. As I understand, you have to get it approved by Aug. 1 under the SAFE Act.

A. It's not Aug. 1 yet, so I'm looking forward to Aug. 1.

Q. But to get it, don't you have to get fingerprinted and submit certain credit reports?

A. And I have done all of that. I've done everything required.

Q. Why didn't you do it when Brenda did? Went down to get a license?

A. We're not joined at the hip; we're married.



Q. You mentioned in your website that you ran a highly successful real estate closing office. Can you tell us the name of that company and where it was located?

A. That company was, it was Real Estate Counselors and it had several attorneys attached to it. I don't remember all of the attorneys right now.

Q. Where was it located?

A. Let's see - One of addresses was on Canton Road.

Q. Never located on Roswell Rd. - 3939?

A. Did move over to Roswell Rd.

Q. Did you own some of that company?

A. I don't remember. I think I did own part of the title insurance company.

Q. Well, Real Estate Counselors, Inc. did you own any of that?

A. Yeah, that's the title insurance company. That was in the law office.

Q. Well you owned some of that.

A. I believe I did. That was 15-20 years ago, 15 years ago.

Q. You said you ran that office, it was a highly successful closing office.

A. I was the office manager, law clerk, ran as best I could the operations.

Q. And you were an owner too, weren't you?

A. I'd have to go back and check, but I believe I was part of the title insurance company.

Q. Who hired these lawyers that worked there?

A. It wasn't a hiring scenario, it was attorneys that wanted to come to work there. They were, it was their law firm, we were working in conjunction with them.

Q. Well who signed their paycheck?

A. They signed their own.



Q. What became of that company?

A. I do not know. I left that company in, sometime in the 90s.



Q. What do you know about Gulf Funding and Gulf Financial Services?

A. I know they were a client of several law firms, including a couple that were associated with Real Estate Counselors, and that they were involved in, speculation, you'd have to ask them, but I believe they were involved in a mortgage fraud ring that we were able to help disband.



Q. Real Estate Counselors was listed as the registered agent for them.

A. Again, you have information that I don't have right now. That was 15 years ago.



Q. Who set up Real Estate Counselors with the Secretary of State? Was that some of your legal work?

A. It wouldn't have been my legal work. I believe I signed as the registered agent when it first started years ago. But I didn't have anything to do with closing it or anything.

Q. What was your association Glenn LaGrone and Tom Stacey?

A. They were principals at one clients of one of the firm that you're talking about.

Q. They were a major firm, weren't they?

A. Again, that's 15 years ago, but again they did do a lot of business...

Q. With your firm?

A. Yes, with one of the firms I work with. You keep saying my firm. There were a lot of folks in that office.

Q. There are a lot of folks in the IBM Office, but not everybody owns it. I guess the question is, you did own part of it, how much?

A. And it was successful until I left. I left in the mid-90s and didn't have anything to do with them after that, the late 90s. I'm not even sure exactly when it was. And I know one of Kim's questions was why did it close later after that? I have no idea.



Q. Did you ever talk to FBI agent named Michael Lamone?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Conceivably you might have?

A. Sure. During that Gulf investigation when we were trying to take the mortgage fraud ring down.

Q. What happened to Stacey and LeGrone?

A. They got locked up, as far as I know. I mean I saw a newspaper report that they had, that's all the knowledge that I have.



Q. So you would consider that a successful company?

A. What was the question?

Q. Real Estate Counselors, would you consider that a successful company? You said you've run several successful businesses.

A. I think at the time I was there it was feeding everybody's family. And I think if you don't have a lot of money in the bank and you have the ability to run a successful company and keep your cash flow going and make your payroll, then that would be a successful company.

Q. But you didn't sell it for anything?

A. Not that I recall. I think I got some money out of it when I left, but I don't remember what. That's a long time ... We're talking about 15 years ago.

Q. Cool Dreams - you say you've talked to more than 300,000 students. That means, in effect you've spoken to every Cobb County student three times.

A. If that's the calculation you want to use, then right. There are a lot of kids that have benefited from Cool Dreams' presentation.

Q. Let me ask you this, your tax returns for Cool Dreams, the first one you filed in 06, said you had gross revenues of almost $900. In the subsequent one, the postcard return as it's called, for nonprofits that take in less than $5,000 a year. So are those accurate? Did you take in less than $5,000?

A. Yes sir, all my tax returns are accurate.

Q. I'm just asking. You ask for a donation of $300 per speech. So I guess, my question is, obviously if you only took in $900, a lot of people didn't contribute?

A. That's correct. It's way too important a message. When I speak to these kids, it's me speaking to them, it's me taking my time, my energy, my time away from my business going in and talking to these kids because it's a very important character message - about proper planning, perseverance and through faith anything is possible. And as I go in and I talk to these kids, a lot of times these teachers or these principals and business organizations will say, how can I help? Do you charge? No, I don't charge, but if you'd like to, please make a donation. I don't require them to make a donation, and they say, how much? And I'm like, suggested, $300. They could make $100, they could make $20, they could make $600, we don't really care because the message is way too important.



Q. Lacy Hotel - that was your corporation, right?

A. I owned 50 percent of a corporation called Lacy Hotel Inc., which was a holding company for a piece of property in downtown Kennesaw. I had envisioned on that piece of property a beautiful, three-story, retail condominiums to revitalize downtown Kennesaw.

Q. How big was the land?

A. .62 acres.

Q. Can you put a hotel on that land?

A. Yes sir, you can put two buildings on that land, but we weren't putting a hotel. We were actually going to build a retail/condominium there, but later, the city of Kennesaw came to me, they were trying to assemble all the land in downtown Kennesaw so they could offer it to one person, instead of having to have a bunch of different property owners and allow developers to try to negotiate with those property owners. They made a very very smart move.

The city of Kennesaw asked their development authority, I don't remember if it was the KDA or KDDA, to go in and buy the large tract of land behind our lot, the large tract of land up front our lot and the smaller track of land right next to our lot and assemble all of those...

Q. What's the status of the land now?

A. The status of the land is still undeveloped. Now it is owned by one of the authorities in Kennesaw. When they came to me, and they said, will you sell? I said I would be happy to, if you think it will promote downtown Kennesaw.

Q. And what was in the holding company besides this .6 acres? Lacy Hotel, Inc. You said it was a holding company, did it hold any other real estate?

A. It did not.

Q. On the evaluation here it said it appraised for $315,000, but it says based on the extraordinary assumption that a variance can be obtained to develop the subject lot.

A. And your question?

Q. Is that standard for appraisals?

A. I did not do that appraisal, and as a licensed appraiser I would not want to render an opinion on somebody else's work without properly doing my homework. But I suggest you call whoever the appraiser was and ask him about it.

Q. If you go out here and appraise a tract of land zoned residential, you don't appraise it at what it might be worth for 12 apartments per unit.

A. It depends on the assignment.

Q. When did you buy that piece of land?

A. I don't remember. Four or five years before I sold it.

Q. And do you remember what you paid for it?

A. I don't remember.

Q. You mentioned your appraisal company - is it still in existence?

A. No, it's not.

Q. Did you sell it?

A. No, I just closed it down.

Q. Now in your literature you say that you're selling your auction company. Are you selling it?

A. I did not say that. I'm just closing it. It is not a time to be doing auctions now. People are giving land away at auctions.



Q. Tell us about New Grove Limited? When did that start?

A. New Grove Limited is a holding company. A few years ago, mid-2000s, in that name.

Q. If somebody wanted to spend some money with New Grove, what could they do?

A. They couldn't. It's a holding company of land.

Q. It owns land.

A. Yes sir. And that's properly disclosed on my records as well.

Q. Whereabouts?

A. Filed with the Ethics Board, it's on there. It's called New Grove Limited.

Q. Does New Grove own Jamerson Forest?

A. No sir.

Q. What is that? A half-acre residential property?

A. All properly disclosed.

Q. Tell us about this shared leadership - shared governance. What does that mean in layman's terms? You said we should go help the communications department, lend people to them?

A. Which do you want to talk about, shared governance or the communications department? I didn't say anything that you should lend people to them...

Q. Well you said help out. Anyway, what is shared governance?

A. Mr. Brumby, how would you like to sponsor the communications department? You would have no control over it, as the press of course, but you as a business owner could help our schools by simply writing a check to the Cobb County Board of Education so that it could be like the law school down at Georgia State, the Otis Brumby Communications Department of the Cobb County Board of Education and you could contribute every year money you make off of covering the school board back to our school children.

Let's talk just a second about the shared governance model. The Georgia Partnership of Education Excellence, as well as the Georgia School Board Association, have also touted the new wave of mutual govnance. We cannot continue in today's society, in today's economic crisis, being a stand-alone entity. The school board cannot function in a bubble. It has to communicate with the county that it's in and the cities in which its schools are in.

It is a governing body, and it will continue to govern, however, it needs to communicate with the county government, it needs to talk to the city government in the six cities. No longer can Kennesaw function independently of Marietta. They butt up against each other now. We've got to all communicate.



Q. Who else is doing shared governance?

A. I didn't bring my notes, but I'm sure that you're a newspaper and you have the ability to look at the factual reporting of that.

Q. What's the difference between shared governance and Give Our Schools a Hand?

A. Give Our Schools a Hand is not a government thing. Give Our Schools a hand is asking communities to give back, which we also need to do as well.

Q. Do they have shared governance in Gwinnett County, for the Gwinnett School System?

A. That school system seems to be working fine. And I believe if we were to ask, if you were to send a reporter over there, you would find that that school board probably talks to their county commission. That school board talks to other entities there. And I think that while some people may perceive shared governance as a good old boy network, it's no longer that. It's actually businessmen, -women, government leaders, communities all working together to make sure our children exceed in excellence.

Q. Why haven't Sam Olens and these people been talking to them?

A. They have started to.

Q. Last I read Holli (Cash) was blasting the general assembly.

A. Well not everybody is doing it, and you'll need to ask Holli about that. We have five minutes left before I have to go to a forum, if you have any pertinent information.



Q. When the bus route problem came up with the transportation, your mentor, John Abraham, instead of suggesting that Sanderson straighten it out, he suggested that they get city manager of Kennesaw. Is that what you mean - he would take off from Kennesaw and leave his duties behind and come down there and straighten out the bus department, is that your idea of shared governance?

A. First of all, John Abraham is not my mentor, nor am I his puppet. And anybody that knows me will know that I am not his puppet, however I do talk to John, John is a friend.

Q. Well give us an example we could understand, in layman's terms. Sam Olens would have breakfast with the school board members?

A. No sir. Let's take for instance if the school board, the county commission, the county DOT had all been communicating. If they had been communicating, would we then have an elementary school with a shooting range, a dump and an arterial-feeder road surrounding it? No, we might have been able to avoid that, save the taxpayers money and provided a better environment for our youth. That's one example of shared governance.



Q. Who else is running on a platform of shared governance - at the local level or the state level?

A. I've been running my own race

Q. I know you are, but who else? Is this originally your idea?

A. I might direct you to my website at voteborden.com. I have a new blog entry that talks more about my shared governance and it also gives you many quotes and information from the Georgia School Board Association, which I was the only candidate from Cobb County that attended. It also talks about the Georgia Partners in Excellence. It just make sense that we need the shared governance model.

Q. But you don't know of anybody else who is running on this platform?

A. I have not researched that.



Q. What other changes do you want to make at the school board, besides introducing a shared governance model? Is the shared governance model different than a Carver Governance Model?

A. There are differences. And other changes that I would like to make, I would like to see us prioritize the budget. We definitely have to prioritize the budget because we need to keep the teachers teaching. And if we're able to prioritize the budget, and we're able to find other sources of income from the school system to supplement the budget, then we won't have to cut teachers.

Q. John Abraham suggested they go out and sell their county department services, do you think other school systems are going to buy Cobb County's budgeting services? Is that something you've really got to sell?

A. I would have to get on the board and look at our accounting department, but one thing I know for certain without being on the board is that we have some of the best teachers in the state and because of our teachers, I think that is something we can sell.

Q. What are you going to sell?

A. The classroom instruction of those teachers. There are services that sell DVDs of those services online, lesson plans, home schoolers can buy them, other school systems can buy them. We have some great teachers that we should be marketing as well.

People talk about privatizing the school buses. Why in the world would we privatize something, because the private company is going to only do it if they make money. Instead we need to keep that in-house and run it more like a business and get with the safe routes program and try to work with the safe routes program and get them on board helping us manage that school board's transportation system for the safety and health of our kids to better educate them and get them to school safely.



Q. You said there's a similarity to the shared governance model with Carver, were you an admirer or proponent of the Carver Governance Model or do you know anything about it?

A. I have no opinion on the Carver Model. I know very little about it, I would have to go back and read it all again.



Q. Your friend, John Abraham...

A. We need to wrap this up, so get to your point ... a couple more questions and then I have to go.

Q. Your friend, John Abraham, ran as a reform candidate, he was going to get them out of their comfort zone, shake the bag, he's been quoted as saying that, has he been successful in doing that?

A. I don't believe he has. I believe he attempted to, but I don't believe he has been able to do that.



Q. Some people have asked us to find out - do you receive any payments from the state of Alaska?

A. I do not.

Q. None.

A. No.

Q. Do any of your companies?

A. No.

Q. What was Jox, Inc?

A. A holding company. It was a friend's company.

Q. Did you own any of it?

A. No. I just served as his registered agent.

Q. What about Christian Women at Work, Inc.?

A. I just served as their registered agent. They needed an address and a body to serve as their registered agent.

Q. Bikeology?

A. I served as registered agent for the young man.

Q. What did they do?

A. I don't remember. Long time ago.

Q. Did you get paid to be a registered agent?

A. No.

Q. Why did they ask you to be the registered agent?

A. They were friends and I had a business address.



Q. Who do you most admire on the Cobb School Board?

A. It changes from week to week, but if I had to look at the school board, I would look at a person that has a caring mind, that before he speaks, he thinks, and when he says something, he says it in a most precise manner. That turns some people off because he's not showboating, and if I had to name a person today, it would be David Banks.



Q. What kind of grade would you give Superintendent Sanderson?

A. A, B, or if he was in Kindergarten through 3rd grade, a 2.



Q. What about Constantino? Do you know him?

A. I've met the man one time, and as far as I can tell, I'd give him the same grade because he's in there, I mean I'd give the administration that grade right now.



Q. Some people claim they need to clean house up there and let the healing begin, and that the community is pretty divided about the school board. Do you think they need to clean house and let the healing begin?

A. I think they need to let new blood on the school board make the decisions from here on out, and not be hiring people before the new officers take effect. And I've really got to go make this forum, I don't want to be late for that.



Q. When you had mentioned before would we like to sponsor the communications department...

A. I think there are many ways to build revenue. And some of those revenues is to get good wholesome companies to hang a name ... hospitals do it all the time... hang a name. Mr. Brumby did it down at UGA - gave them money, hang a name on an endowment or a building or something down there. There are many ways to build that.

When we look at alternative revenue sources, I'm not saying that's the way to do it, I was throwing that out there as an example. We cannot continue to cut the budget. If we cut the budget more, we're going to lose teacher jobs. We cannot lose teacher jobs and still give our students a quality education. We have to find alternative revenue sources and for that we are going to need the communities. We're going to need the business owners, we're going to need the teachers.

Q. Are we going to sell their budgeting department up there? Who in the world wants to sell their budgeting services?

A. They're all alternative means of revenue.

Q. Give us an example.

A. I just did. Asking somebody to sponsor a...

Q. That's just asking somebody for a contribution.

A. OK, and I gave you the example of videoing our teachers and our instructional staff and marketing that.

Q. Who do you want to video? We've got 8,000 teachers.

A. Quality teachers.

Q. And what do you want to do with it?

A. We're going to sell it as a revenue stream.

Q. Would that benefit the individual teacher?

A. I think we need to look at a stipend for that indivual teacher to help them out, because it will be an extra hassle for them. But all of these are ideas that I cannot implement until I get on that board.

Q. But you don't think these other school boards have quality teachers? Their lectures could sell?

A. We're not talking about the other schools.

Q. I go on the theory the world's not upside-down in Cobb County, [others] have budget problems. Cherokee up the road here, why hasn't Dr. Petruzielo taped his teachers and put out a flier and said if you want a tape of our teachers it's $100 a pop?

A. You should ask Dr. Petruzielo that.

Q. Would this cost? Surely they would want to have a study done to see the market for this.

A. You asked me for an idea, you didn't ask me how to implement it. Once we get on the board I'll be able to go through the implementation process. We definitely would not want to do anything that would hurt our teachers, take away from our students or anything that would effect, adversely, however, if we're able to increase revenue from other public-private partnerships or other alternative and innovative revenue streams, then without affecting quality education, then I think we need to explore those opportunities and I'll be happy to put all of my attentions to that when I am elected.

Q. What type of revenue do you think you could raise with a good sales effort?

A. Again, I'll look at those studies when I get time. I really have to go. I have a forum.



Q. Do you see SPLOST being renewed?

A. If SPLOST is renewed, I would want to see a much more detailed notebook that was better properly conveyed to the constituents and that adhered to specifically and no moving between projects - both county DOT and Facilities and Technology.



Q. If you can find somebody in Georgia that has a shared governance model, will you call us so we could learn more about it? If Gwinnett's doing it or MacIntosh County - we'll probably send a reporter down there to find out how it works.

A. As soon as I get through with this election, I will find you one if there is one available, but you may be sitting in a very innovative county. You're right, if it's not broke, don't fix it. But right now it's broke - we're laying off teachers and that's not right - and it's broke.

Q. Other counties are laying off teachers...aren't they? But nobody's running on a shared governance platform.

A. The other counties don't have me living there.